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View Full Version : we shot our wad on katrina


skenzer01
09-21-2005, 01:28 PM
how much more did you save to give to the next natural disaster?

how long do you think this: "throw money at the problem" mentality will last?

our moral leader and president should be strengthening and calming a nation, and instead, he's turned into an 800-number hawker.

god, and mammon, save us all.

Lyn Is Snide
09-21-2005, 01:38 PM
Actually, we shot our wad on a mindless and absurd war.....based on a complete fabrication, no less. :mad:

skenzer01
09-21-2005, 02:37 PM
at least we're not funding the misappropriated war with begging.

plane tickets out of town and a couple thou for every victim of a natural disaster is going to run a little thin.

Jannilu
09-21-2005, 02:45 PM
at least we're not funding the misappropriated war with begging.

No, we're stealing it from our children's & grandchildren's futures, who have no say in how we are spending their money.

Bard
09-21-2005, 02:48 PM
We are fucked.

Tarl Of Gor
09-21-2005, 02:49 PM
Bend over and take it like a man.

skenzer01
09-21-2005, 02:52 PM
you know i am just SO against the iraq war for all the reasons we know.

but at least the military money is appropriated. whether our million soldiers are sitting in kansas playing hearts or popping off innocents in the middle east, they still need to be trained, fed, and housed.

this feeling of ownership of the disaster of katrina is ill-thought-out.

Bard
09-21-2005, 02:53 PM
Tarl,

Americans will whine and cry like the spoiled elitist babes we have become.

Bard
09-21-2005, 02:57 PM
Skenzer,

The problem is what I have been preaching for a year..

the United States is BROKE man, get it?

Fucking bankrupt.

Our government has NO financial resources left.

our american express card has been our oil, and that is about to end too.

Hence, we are fucked and beggers to boot!

We are on the brink of the greatest depression our nation has EVER known.

Know that!

skenzer01
09-21-2005, 03:02 PM
we are the sole world leader.

our poorest have tv's and eat to gluttony.

define "broke".

Bard
09-21-2005, 03:14 PM
we are the sole world leader.

our poorest have tv's and eat to gluttony.

define "broke".

Watch it evolve in front of your very eyes.

Time shall define it.

The sky is falling man.

Tarl Of Gor
09-21-2005, 03:48 PM
And the strong will survive.

randy
09-21-2005, 03:49 PM
No, we're stealing it from our children's & grandchildren's futures, who have no say in how we are spending their money.


This deserves to be said AGAIN!!

"No, we're stealing it from our children's & grandchildren's futures, who have no say in how we are spending their money"

Tarl Of Gor
09-21-2005, 03:54 PM
They can get their own money like I had to.

randy
09-21-2005, 03:56 PM
Great idea Tarl but can we keep our hands off it even before they get it? These current problems really are not theirs to solve.

Tarl Of Gor
09-21-2005, 04:00 PM
I'm sure they'll make plenty of their own problems when they're old enough and I won't have a damn thing to say about those either.

basca
09-21-2005, 04:37 PM
Yeah, you are right, they will make their own mistakes. So fuck them, let them live with the consequences of their own problems plus ours. :rolleyes:

skenzer01
09-21-2005, 04:40 PM
ummm, the consequences of our actions are that we are the sole superpower on the planet. woe is them, huh, for the lame gift.

Lyn Is Snide
09-21-2005, 04:52 PM
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with Randy. :thud

stinky*felix
09-21-2005, 04:57 PM
this feeling of ownership of the disaster of katrina is ill-thought-out. Did this happen in another country? Is not our first responsibility to our own citizens?

randy
09-21-2005, 05:13 PM
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with Randy. :thud

Lyn don't look at it as agreeing with me. Look at it as simply saying that the next generations should not be saddled with our problems and the consequences of our problems. What no one wants to deal with is the next generations will have their own problems and disasters to deal with and to pay for. How is it fair that we should saddle ours on them as well? It is not pure and simple. If it is important enough for us to spend money on it should be important enough for US to pay for it.

Bard
09-21-2005, 05:21 PM
Stinky,

You will find out very soon, that Americans don't even care about there own, IF, it costs money!

And time will prove this statement true, if Katrina, and this present thread has not already.

We care only for the most part for me and mine.

Oh, well kick in ten here and there, but don't expect it too often, and DON'T raise our taxes either, EVEN for American victims.

Sad, but true in my opinion.

It's called selfishness.

We part company with our neighbors and our own family.

Cus it's (money) all most care about period.

stinky*felix
09-21-2005, 05:32 PM
Stinky,




You will find out very soon, that Americans don't even care about there own, IF, it costs money!

And time will prove this statement true, if Katrina, and this present thread has not already.

We care only for the most part for me and mine.

Oh, well kick in ten here and there, but don't expect it too often, and DON'T raise our taxes either, EVEN for American victims.

Sad, but true in my opinion.

It's called selfishness.

We part company with our neighbors and our own family.

Cus it's (money) all most care about period.








It's disgusting, Bard. Our founding fathers must be rolling in their graves.

Now would be the perfect time to exit from Iraq and put that money to better use. Say, "we've given you a few years, a free election, and nearly 2,000 lives. But we've got troubles of our own to take care of, we need our troops and funds back home, so now it's up to you. We're sure you'll understand.

Good by and good luck."

Jannilu
09-21-2005, 05:40 PM
Now would be the perfect time to exit from Iraq and put that money to better use. Say, "we've given you a few years, a free election, and nearly 2,000 lives. But we've got troubles of our own to take care of, we need our troops and funds back home, so now it's up to you. We're sure you'll understand. Good by and good luck."


http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/rikjan/waytogo1.gif

Bard
09-21-2005, 05:47 PM
:thumbsup

Poodles
09-21-2005, 05:48 PM
"""we are the sole world leader.""""

But others are now Qing up to be just that and they got lots of cash-oil etc--HOw long do others think USA will be so called World leaders for.?..

Peregrina
09-21-2005, 10:51 PM
Every generation has the previous generations problems to take care of. Whether it's recovering from a depression or a war, or a period of overspending that leaves the future generations with outstanding debts.....it's like the sins of the father passed down exponentionally. Because there are problems dating from the civil war that we are still dealing with here in the South. So, our debt will just be one more burden to our children's grandchildren.

But have to agree about getting out of Iraq, for oodles of reasons, but mainly because we shouldn't have been there in the first place.

Bard
09-21-2005, 10:56 PM
poodle,

Only Americans are foolish enough, to STILL believe this myth, that we are THE superpower on earth.

Most know better.

China has the bank, and army, not us.

It is our very arrogance, that could very well usher in our untimely demise.

randy
09-22-2005, 06:22 AM
8:19am Texas time


Fox news is now reporting that the federal government is OBLIGATED by federal law to pay 100% of the total cost for 72 hours once a National Disaster area is declared and 75% of the total cost thereafter.

It is being estimated now that there will be APPROXIMATELY $50 to $100 BILLION in damages from Hurricane Rita.

Lyn Is Snide
09-22-2005, 06:25 AM
Now would be the perfect time to exit from Iraq and put that money to better use.
:amen

whiteclouder
09-22-2005, 06:58 AM
Since Bard won't (or, more likely, can't) define broke, I'd like to help. 200 billion dollars is about 1/23rd part of our national economy (GDP) for ONE year. If we can't afford to spend that miniscule amount on disaster relief, we deserve to fail.

In FACT we can afford it and will pay for it, like we've paid for two world and several regional wars, untold hundreds of billions of dollars in famine relief and humanitarian efforts, to put a man on the moon and brought him back and financed the discovery of most medicine in the world. So quit your simplistic whining and divert that effort to something productive.

As for our children----bullcrap. An education system, opportunities for fulfullment, and a real estate legacy my parents never dreamed of. Our children and theirs to follow will be just fine, thank you very much.

Cloud..

randy
09-22-2005, 07:12 AM
Whiteclouder then will you answer me one question please because I have yet to get it answered here.

If these things are really important and I do agree they are, WHY CAN'T WE PAY FOR THEM OURSELVES, NOW?

giiglehoot
09-22-2005, 07:48 AM
:amen

and another :amen here.

TwiggyAZ
09-22-2005, 09:28 AM
HOw long do others think USA will be so called World leaders for.?..

Right on :thumbsup History tells us that someone always wants to knock the king off his hill and become king so they can be knocked off their hill, etc. etc. etc, repeat repeat repeat! This is probably 500-1000 years down the road, but it will happen.

Let's see $100billion for Katrina, $100billion for Rita, and approx 2 more heavy duty ones are expected. Maybe that smart-ass politician from Alaska will give up his $250 million bridge for someone to rebuild their home. :happy

skenzer01
09-22-2005, 09:28 AM
gawd. listening to the lament of some of you is like listening to royalty bitching about how the tea is too cold.

"oh, woe is us, the releif effort was too slow! death and woe upon us all! we have failed, we have failed our future generations!!! woe and lament!!!"

give it a break. your future generations will never have enough time to be thankful for all they'll be experiencing.

Tarl Of Gor
09-22-2005, 09:35 AM
Hey skenz! Dontcha just love it here?

skenzer01
09-22-2005, 09:57 AM
jeezis christ!

we have a natural disaster hit our shores, and we throw a couple grand at each bum, and ferry them around the country in jet planes. TWICE now, for some. and people still bitch about it!!

a natural disaster hits ethiopia, and a generation of fly-eyed children starves to death over a ten year period.

yes, we ARE fucked. we are fucked in the head.

bagbalm
09-22-2005, 01:07 PM
Actually they HAVE been asking for donations for Iraq.
This was in the Chicago Tribune - you have to register so I'll post the whole-


By Cam Simpson
Washington Bureau
Published September 18, 2005
WASHINGTON -- From the Indian Ocean tsunami to the church around the corner, Americans have shown time and again they are willing to open their pocketbooks for charity, for a total of about $250 billion last year alone.

But now, amid pleas for aid after Hurricane Katrina, the Bush administration has launched an unusual effort to raise charitable contributions for another cause: the government's attempt to rebuild Iraq.

Although more than $30 billion in taxpayer funds have been appropriated for Iraqi reconstruction, the administration earlier this month launched an Internet-based fundraising effort that it says is aimed at giving Americans "a further stake in building a free and prosperous Iraq."

Contributors have no way of knowing who's getting the money or precisely where it's headed because the government says it must keep the details secret for security reasons.

But taxpayers already finance the projects for which the administration is seeking charitable donations, such as providing water pumps for farmers. And officials say any contributions they receive will increase the scope of those efforts rather than relieve existing taxpayer burdens.

The campaign is raising eyebrows in the international development and not-for-profit communities, where there are questions about its timing--given needs at home--and whether it will set the government in competition with international not-for-profits.

On a more basic level, experts wonder whether Americans will make charitable donations to a government foreign aid program and whether the contentious environment surrounding Iraq will make a tough pitch even tougher.

"I'm a little skeptical, and the timing certainly isn't the best," said James Ferris, director of the Center on Philanthropy and Public Policy at the University of Southern California. "It's going to be a hard sell."

Cost of rebuilding skyrockets

The U.S. Agency for International Development, the federal government's primary distributor of foreign aid, said Friday, "Charitable contributions play an important role in enriching and extending U.S. government efforts."

The effort is just the newest twist in the administration's struggle to rebuild Iraq. Andrew Natsios, head of USAID, first predicted it would cost taxpayers no more than $1.7 billion. The tab has since risen to more than $30 billion, with congressional Republicans and Democrats sharply critical of the high cost and slow pace of progress.

In addition, the new campaign comes amid increasing concerns that some of the administration's major projects in Iraq will be scrapped or only partially completed because of rising costs, especially for security. Some officials fear money may run out before key projects are completed.

Natsios announced the campaign in a speech Sept. 9. In a press release issued the same day, USAID said its new Web site "will help American citizens learn more about official U.S. assistance for Iraq and make contributions to high-impact development projects."

Although USAID has received private donations from corporations in the past, this might be the first time it has geared a charity pitch for U.S. foreign aid dollars to citizens.

Initially, the Web site, called Iraqpartnership.org, is offering potential contributors a choice of eight projects, each seeking $10,000 or less. They include purchasing computers for centers designed to assist Iraqi entrepreneurs, buying furniture and supplies for Iraqi elementary and high schools, paying for the production of posters to promote "awareness of disabilities and rights issues," and buying water pumps for farmers.

There is also a general Iraq country fund, offering donors "another high-impact giving opportunity without making them have to specify a project."

All of the projects are from USAID's existing portfolio of reconstruction programs in Iraq, according to the agency.

Security issues obscure details

Heather Layman, a USAID spokeswoman, said the efforts are being carried out by five private organizations working on Iraq reconstruction with USAID funding. The site does not provide details about the groups involved or the project locations because of "security issues in Iraq."

The government says all contributions are tax-deductible.
William Reese, the president and CEO of the International Youth Foundation, said USAID officials did not discuss the campaign with a special advisory committee that he serves on and formerly headed.

That committee, made up primarily of representatives from non-profit groups working overseas, is supposed to help "provide the underpinning for cooperation between the public and private sectors in U.S. foreign assistance programs," according to USAID.

Reese said some not-for-profit groups may see the effort as competition, but he predicted few would be concerned because of a more basic issue: While Americans are generous, he said, "I don't think your average Joe is going to write a check to the U.S. government."

Carol Lancaster, a foreign aid expert and associate professor at Georgetown University's School of Foreign Service, also questioned the premise of the program.

"Places that are seen as public agencies or clones of public agencies don't get private donations," said Lancaster, a former deputy administrator at USAID. "People generally believe, `It's government, so government should pay for it.'"

Nassarie Carew, a spokeswoman for InterAction, an umbrella group of more than 160 non-profits working overseas, said her organization also was not aware of the effort. Its CEO, Mohammad Akhter, serves on the USAID advisory panel. Carew declined to comment until the group had a chance to survey its members.

Layman, the USAID spokeswoman, called the Web site "a passive solicitation," saying potential donors would likely find it only if they were "looking for a way to support Iraq's redevelopment."

She also said some "people who might have donated to projects in Iraq will now choose to put money toward Katrina relief," but that others "will still want to help in Iraq."

She said Iraqi-Americans specifically had asked USAID to help them find an avenue for contributions.

Raising charitable contributions for overseas projects can be a challenge even when the U.S. government is not at the center of the pitch. And Iraq is one of the government's more controversial foreign policy ventures in decades.

DevelopmentSpace Foundation Inc., the group that set up the Web site for USAID, operates its own, separate Web site seeking charitable donations for small-scale projects in developing countries.

Since its founding in 2001, that effort has raised a total of about $2 million, said Allison Koch, a foundation spokeswoman.

The organization keeps a 10 percent commission for contributions and has received most of its operating funds through major grants from several other foundations. USAID also gave it a grant of $1.5 million.

So far, $39 donated

Although in its infancy, the Iraqpartnership.org Web site had generated contributions totaling $39 as of Friday night.

According to the Giving USA Foundation, which tracks annual charitable donations by Americans, international giving accounted for 2.1 percent of all charity in the U.S. last year.

Ferris, the director of the USC philanthropy center, said that's because people want to donate to causes closer to home.

Except for the fact that the aim of foreign aid is to bolster U.S. foreign policy objectives overseas, Ferris said the new USAID campaign seems like a natural extension of the growing trend toward public-private partnerships.

"There is this blurring of the lines," he said. "A lot of things once paid for by the public are now paid through private sources."

----------

csimpson@tribune.com

Tarl Of Gor
09-22-2005, 01:14 PM
Once we rebuild Iraq do ya think it'll be a real cool place to vacation?

skenzer01
09-22-2005, 01:50 PM
don't miss "snake charming" night! that one's worth it. also, the tour of the saddam rat hole museum is worth the cost of admission. if you don't mind all the damn japanese tourists stopping to take pictures.

Jannilu
09-22-2005, 02:01 PM
Whiteclouder then will you answer me one question please because I have yet to get it answered here.

If these things are really important and I do agree they are, WHY CAN'T WE PAY FOR THEM OURSELVES, NOW?

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/rikjan/23_1_1251.gif

whiteclouder
09-22-2005, 02:54 PM
Randy (is that your name or state of mind?) and Janni:

We could pay for the clean-up and do it now if we wanted. It's a matter of priority. Senator Stevens (R.Alaska) thinks he needs a bridge, Nelson (D.Florida) needs to fund a study to find out if sun scour can be prevented on oranges, Kerry (D. Massachusetts) is funding a study to find out if tsetse fly balls are bigger than his and Kennedy needs driving lessons. All in good time folks.

Cloud..